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头版CD之我见 [复制链接]

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尾声

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t T
发表于 2006-03-22 13:17 |只看该用户

Raxel 在 2006-3-16 13:57:52 发表的内容
wyfatpig 在 2006-3-16 13:50:50 发表的内容
哈哈,实际上我就是想表达一下我个人对头版和再版的一个真实意见.
我本人对那些唯头版论的观点是完全不赞同的!


的确没错,但单就Rolling Stones头6张专辑而言,SACD并没有胜过Decca头版CD,所以其实这是一个首版好的例子.只是前面朋友说Decca头版CD音质太差,可以当垃圾扔掉,这个我不同意而已.只要你是真正首版,不是什么中间的再版,扔给我就可以了,我拿SACD原封的和你一张换一张.





[The Rolling Stones' London/ABKCO catalog was reissued in August of 2002, packaged in digipacks with restored album artwork, remastered, and released as hybrid discs that contain both CD and Super Audio CD layers. The remastering — performed with Direct Stream Digital (DSD) encoding — is a drastic improvement, leaping out of the speaker yet still sounding like the original albums. This is noticeable on the standard CD layer but is considerably more pronounced on the SACD layer, which is shockingly realistic in its detail and presence yet is still faithful to the original mixes; Richards' revved-up acoustic guitar on "Street Fighting Man" still sends the machine into overdrive, for instance. It just sounds like he's in the room with you. Even if you've never considered yourself an audiophile, have never heard the differences between standard and gold-plated CDs, you will hear the difference with SACD, even on a cheap stereo system without a high-end amplifier or speakers. And you won't just hear the difference, you'll be an instant convert and wish, hope, and pray that other artists whose catalog hasn't been reissued since the early days of CD — Bob Dylan, Bruce Springsteen, Neil Young, especially the Beatles — are given the same treatment in the very near future. SACD and DSD are that good.]
权威的allmusic网站在滚石早期专辑评论后特别指出DSD再版全面胜过标准版和镀金版CD.
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Raxel
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Raxel

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t T
发表于 2006-03-22 13:59 |只看该用户

尾声 在 2006-3-22 13:17:33 发表的内容
The Rolling Stones' London/ABKCO catalog was reissued in August of 2002, packaged in digipacks with restored album artwork, remastered, and released as hybrid discs that contain both CD and Super Audio CD layers. The remastering — performed with Direct Stream Digital (DSD) encoding — is a drastic improvement, leaping out of the speaker yet still sounding like the original albums. This is noticeable on the standard CD layer but is considerably more pronounced on the SACD layer, which is shockingly realistic in its detail and presence yet is still faithful to the original mixes; Richards' revved-up acoustic guitar on "Street Fighting Man" still sends the machine into overdrive, for instance. It just sounds like he's in the room with you. Even if you've never considered yourself an audiophile, have never heard the differences between standard and gold-plated CDs, you will hear the difference with SACD, even on a cheap stereo system without a high-end amplifier or speakers. And you won't just hear the difference, you'll be an instant convert and wish, hope, and pray that other artists whose catalog hasn't been reissued since the early days of CD — Bob Dylan, Bruce Springsteen, Neil Young, especially the Beatles — are given the same treatment in the very near future. SACD and DSD are that good.
权威的allmusic网站在滚石早期专辑评论后特别指出DSD再版全面胜过标准版和镀金版CD.



1.allmusic在音乐内容方面相对权威,但就对音质方面的评论而言,不被audiophile认同的地方非常多.

2.我把这段引用反复读了3遍,都没有读出你所理解的意思.
Even if you've never considered yourself an audiophile, have never heard the differences between standard and gold-plated CDs, you will hear the difference with SACD, even on a cheap stereo system without a high-end amplifier or speakers.
即使你不是一位发烧友,从来没有听出金碟CD和普通CD的差别,但你一定可以听出普通CD和SACD之间的差异.即使是使用很普通的音响系统.

他的意思就是说SACD和CD的差异(并非特指Rolling Stones的SACD,而且根本没有提及Rolling Stones再版SACD和Decca头版的差异.

3.俗话说术业有专攻,给你看看什么叫做专业的Rolling Stones研究.

这是非常详细的图解,哪些才是真正的Decca头版CD,所以不要拿一张银圈就以为是首版,完全有可能是2版,3版了.
http://home.arcor.de/folon2/stones_london_cds.html

这是最详细的关于Rolling Stones 22张再版SACD的解析,包括和头版CD的差异,内容上的,和音质上的.有时候对老外不得不说一个服字,这片文章的内容完全是专业学术文章的水平.
http://lukpac.org/stereostones/stones-cd-faq.txt
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t T
发表于 2006-03-22 16:22 |只看该用户

请问第一张唱片的名称?
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Raxel
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Raxel

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t T
发表于 2006-03-22 16:28 |只看该用户

尾声 在 2006-3-22 16:22:05 发表的内容
请问第一张唱片的名称?


那张是self-titled.就是同名专辑.(第一张The Rolling Stones (England's Newest Hitmakers)

反正如果你看到早期CD,只要是有"Digitally Remastered From Original Master Tape"这个红条的,哪怕是London商标的,也是ABKCO的再版.要是只有London商标的,才是真正的首版,是模拟混音制作的.这批首版现在挺难找了.
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Raxel
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Raxel

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t T
发表于 2006-03-22 15:36 |只看该用户

尾声 在 2006-3-22 15:21:52 发表的内容
QZ1) Are the new Stones discs a big and NOTICABLE improvement over the old
ABKCO discs in sound quality?

AZ1) In general, yes, to a fairly large degree.

QZ2) What are the most improved titles in the new reissue series (over the old
ABKCOs)?

AZ2) They are:

*12x5 - Fully half of the album is now stereo - previously it was completely mono.

*Aftermath UK - A big improvement over the old ABKCO CD, although some feel it's
still not quite up to the level of the old London CD.

Between the Buttons US/UK - No more narrow stereo, and great sound on the balance,
although there are a few issues with this disc. Still an amazing upgrade over one of the
worst old-ABKCO discs.

Beggar's Banquet - By far the biggest upgrade in sound. It is far clearer than the old CDs,
with less hiss, and it even runs at the correct speed for the first time.
你推荐的文章太长,随便引了段,是说明再版胜出的结论.
另外,ALLMUSIC那段里提到的 Richards' revved-up acoustic guitar on "Street Fighting Man" 里的Richard当然是滚石吉他手Keith Richard了.不好意思我只引了一段一般人很难看出来.你知道他们为什么做这个研究吗?因为CD版太差了,不管是头版,普通版,还是金版.




1.首先指出你一个基本概念错误old ABKCO discs并非是指Decca头版CD,你当时说的是听了SACD.头版Decca就变垃圾了.所以不要混淆你原贴的意思.

2.Rolling Stones没有金碟版本,我不明白allmusic上面这段原文你为什么会理解错误.他的意思就是说SACD和CD音质有很大差别,而并不是说Rolling Stones的SACD比什么普通CD和金碟CD是如何一个差别.我并不是说究竟好还是不好,但原文没有这个意思,你去重新读一遍.

你的一个根本错误就是,把早期CD都认为是头版.

ABKCO发行的Rolling Stones CD是再版,下面都有"Digital Remastered"的标识,音质比不上SACD.但这不代表Decca头版CD比不上SACD,希望这个不是很难让你理解吧.


你看上面这一句

*Aftermath UK - A big improvement over the old ABKCO CD, although some feel it's
still not quite up to the level of the old London CD.

很明显作者也是把ABKCO和London Decca分成两个版本的.
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尾声

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t T
发表于 2006-03-22 22:26 |只看该用户

我知道没金碟版,开开玩笑.但ABKCO的头版CD1986年就上市了,难到LONDON版还要早?如果ABKCO上得早,LONDON版不就是再版了吗?你那张LONDON版标的是那年出版的?
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Raxel
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Raxel

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t T
发表于 2006-03-22 16:56 |只看该用户

我不是说SACD版本不好,有些是胜过首版CD的,但有些不是.如果论性价比,肯定是SACD的好.就我自己而言,SACD我都收了,但首版CD只收了1,2张,因为不愿意多花那些钱.但如果谁愿意扔掉首版CD,我绝对愿意拿全新未开封的SACD和你换.

总结一下Rolling Stones最早6张专辑

4.1) England's Newest Hit Makers
Definitive Version?: Early German London CD/Japanese London (unless you don't care
about the longer "Tell Me," in which case the ABKCO remaster is fine)

4.2) 12x5
Definitive Version: ABKCO remaster SACD
There's pretty much no contest here, then. While the shared mono tracks on the
old ABKCO, the old London, and current remaster do sound somewhat similar, the
upgraded stereo tracks breathe a whole new dimension into this album. The new ABKCO
is definitely the best bet.

4.3) Now!
The old London version is a bit thin
but has a lot of top end, while the new ABKCO version is fuller but has a dull/phasey top
end.

4.4) Out Of Our Heads!
The old ABKCO and London discs sounded very similar, with the London
perhaps having a slight edge. The ABKCO remaster isn't a huge improvement, but it does
sound good, and is currently the easiest to get; the bass/EQ boost is less obvious here than
it is on the other early CDs

*4.5) December's Children (And Everybody's)
Definitive Version: ABKCO remaster SACD

4.6) Aftermath
Definitive Version: London CD (any version thereof. The SACD is OK, but it has quite a
bit of processing that puts it a notch below the London. The US version is completely
disposable in any form)
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Raxel
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Raxel

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t T
发表于 2006-03-23 01:04 |只看该用户

尾声 在 2006-3-22 22:26:16 发表的内容
我知道没金碟版,开开玩笑.但ABKCO的头版CD1986年就上市了,难到LONDON版还要早?如果ABKCO上得早,LONDON版不就是再版了吗?你那张LONDON版标的是那年出版的?


最早的版本,封面上只有London的单独商标.然后再版的时候,使用数码混音,一部分在封面上采用了ABKCO商标,一部分是仍然采用London商标,但封面上都有一个红条子,写着"Digital Remastered from ...".

其实London版,和ABKCO哪个早,很简单,一个是AAD,一个是ADD,你说哪个早?至于我贴的那张,是1984年的.
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尾声

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t T
发表于 2006-03-23 10:44 |只看该用户

84年的CD?佩服佩服.我手上一堆ABKCO的CD封面确实是有红条子,最早是86年出版的.你贴的LONDON版我从来没见过,因为这张专辑我也有,但封面上是有THE ROLLING STONES的字样的.你推荐的两个帖子我昨晚粗粗看了下,确实长见识.可不可以问一下你是哪里买到84年的CD的?84年的时候我才刚刚换下开裆裤呢.
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Raxel
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Raxel

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t T
发表于 2006-03-23 11:39 |只看该用户

尾声 在 2006-3-23 10:44:10 发表的内容
84年的CD?佩服佩服.我手上一堆ABKCO的CD封面确实是有红条子,最早是86年出版的.你贴的LONDON版我从来没见过,因为这张专辑我也有,但封面上是有THE ROLLING STONES的字样的.你推荐的两个帖子我昨晚粗粗看了下,确实长见识.可不可以问一下你是哪里买到84年的CD的?84年的时候我才刚刚换下开裆裤呢.


我也是难得在二手CD商店碰巧找到的.现在London头版,特别是德国压片的(其他还有英国,或者法国压片的),既少,又贵.不过如果有机会买到ABKCO再版SACD,我建议还是尽快下手,因为也已经绝版了.现在压出来的都是纯CD版了,原来压的SACD卖完不会再有了.
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七月雨中

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t T
发表于 2006-03-24 23:35 |只看该用户

我也帖一張頭版的普通CD,雖然再版很多品種,網上也有不少,網上頭版(1ST)有時也會見到,但在本地市場不知為何找了不短時間才找到,花了50元,CASABLANCA這首歌不少人都知道吧.
日版 35DP-35,3500日元版.
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