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名人谈唱片录音资料汇集(最新:Classic Records老板Michael Hob... [复制链接]

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291#

回复: 名人谈唱片录音资料汇集(最新:David Mellor谈模拟录音与数码录音)

原帖由 bbc4 于 2007-8-17 11:31:00 发表
好贴。以下有感而发:

一、楼主在开篇提到的“粗糙的明亮感”,非常生动。先不说LP,现在我们听Mercury的绝大部分录音、CBS早期的佳录音(比如瓦尔特的勃拉姆斯)、RCA的发烧录音。。。都存在这些“粗糙的明亮感”(听听瓦尔特勃二开头的弦乐齐奏)。和现代的数码录音相比,这些粗糙感反而显得生动,直接、好听,先声夺人,能够切肤感受到音乐的锋芒。现在大家习惯说的模拟味儿,黑胶味道,大部分就是这种声音。但从另一方面说,不够细致、全面、平衡是其缺点。说实话mercury的有些录音不耐久听,有些吵耳。。。。。不管怎么说,这些录音很有特点,后来的很多数码录音就显得平庸,尽管更细致,更平衡,更全面,更真实。。。。打个比方,这些老录音好像梵高的麦田,大面积的纯黄与纯蓝产生强烈的对比让人触目惊心,一下子就被触动了,感动了;可是当你真的站在那块麦田前面,除了麦子就是麦子,灰灰土土的,什么感觉都没有,甚至还看见了虫子。

二、上面提到了数码照片和模拟照片的对比,我完全同意。假以时日,数码照片所包含的信息量甚至超过人类也未可知。

三、论坛不如以前了,为什么不定期清扫垃圾呢?


        其一、若有条件,那还是请您先听听LP的表现再说吧!而您在非LP版本内所感知的什么“听Mercury的绝大部分录音、CBS早期的佳录音(比如瓦尔特的勃拉姆斯)、RCA的发烧录音。。。都存在这些“粗糙的明亮感”(听听瓦尔特勃二开头的弦乐齐奏)”,我可以非常严肃、认真地告诉您!这一切将会在调整、搭配适当的LP系统当中不复存在……

        第二、没错,但重要而不可或缺的前提会是这“假以时日”四个字。

        最后、的确,象F楼主这样的垃圾言论,此论坛为何不定期清理呢?
My mane is MENN KWOO - 很欢迎大家来http://www.yhwr.cn坐坐(原网站服务器调整,暂时转战至此)、聊聊那些真实的东西,比如技术、声音,以及看看David & MENN Lab.的相关产品等等、等等。(头像中的唱臂为私人收藏——Fidelity Research FR-54)
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292#

回复: 名人谈唱片录音资料汇集(最新:David Mellor谈模拟录音与数码录音)

原帖由 JWang 于 2007-3-24 12:23:00 发表
这个flexcat连理解文章的能力也没有。因为直刻LP很麻烦,刻录时要多台刻录机, 而且—出差错就前功尽弃。而且后期不可能编辑。这样的话, 直刻就象开小灶,不太经济可行。而且很多现场是不可能为直刻提供条件。故直刻不是一个有效,经济的手段。但是,这并不表明直刻的音响效果是差的。直刻的音效是一般的LP无法相比的。CD出来也有二十多年了吧,但是在这成千上万张CD中,没有—张CD的音效可达到直刻的效果的。如果有人可以找到一张CD比直刻LP效果好的话,我很愿意开开眼界。如果一个人硬要否定直刻LP,硬要讲CD比直刻LP好的话,那么这种人只能为痞子,骗子,傻子。

直刻就象山珍海味,一个录音公司要赚钱,要发展是不能依靠直刻的。从这个角度来讲,直刻不是发展的道路。但从音效的角度来讲,我还没看到有人来否定直刻的效果。只有痞子(闭着眼睛讲瞎话),骗子(为了自身的利益讲假话), 傻子(没头脑)才会否定直刻的音效。人家在Flexcat引用的这段话根本没有否定直刻的效果。这只能表明flexcat理解能力的低下。
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293#

回复:名人谈唱片录音资料汇集(最新:David Mellor谈模拟录音与数码录音)

LZ的沉默,可能已经感悟到新的理念了。
老实说,前人的经验,可以学习、借鉴、探讨,但绝不是不分青红皂白地生搬硬套,甚至断章取义地引用。
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294#

回复: 名人谈唱片录音资料汇集(最新:David Mellor谈模拟录音与数码录音)

原帖由 聆至静 于 2007-7-17 9:02:00 发表
引用:
原帖由 名琴LP 于 2007-7-16 20:19:00 发表
[quote] 原帖由 menn 于 2007-7-8 23:36:00 发表

        也用不着催!等此人猫在阴暗的角落以其卑劣、丑陋的心态,拼凑、剪裁、再加工好所谓论据、名人资料之后,自然就会阴魂不散地卷土重来、浮出水面的......


支持!!!再踩上一脚


瞎鼓噪
对于音响器材来说:绝对“理想的、忠实地还原”是没有的,也是做不到的;我们只是在朝着“音响器材各自应该具备的基本性能”方面尽量努力,使其各尽其责而已。目的就是尽可能地做到“理想的、忠实地还原”。
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295#

回复: 名人谈唱片录音资料汇集(最新:David Mellor谈模拟录音与数码录音)

《时代》杂志评“LP vs CD之战”

Michael Walsh是知名的乐评家。他毕业于伊斯特曼音乐学院(Eastman School of Music,Rochester, New York,熟悉水星公司录音的朋友应该对这个学院有印象),曾在旧金山《San Francisco Examiner》日报、纽约《时代》杂志任音乐评论职位。除了评论之外,Walsh还有多本著作。

自从82年CD面世销售的时候,LP与CD之争便已是客观事实。那时候是,现在也是,将来也或许会是(但数码方面肯定不仅限于CD了);不同的只是人数的多少而已。Walsh在1986年的时候便在《时代》杂志上刊登了《LP vs CD大战》(“The Great Lp Vs. Cd War”)一文,原文可以在这里浏览:

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,962146-1,00.html

在评论里,Walsh客观地描述了两者的优缺点,展示了双方的观点,最后他得出新技术必定会取胜的结论。读了Walsh的这篇评论之后我发现他高屋建瓴的观点是相当有预见性的,很多数码录音里面的常识他在1986年就为读者普及了;但可悲的是20多年过去了,现在某些音响厂家、写手却还因为经济利益关系试图去蒙骗消费者。对此Welsh有一句极其精辟的话:

“Every advance in recording has been accompanied by the cries of those whom technology has left behind.” (每一次录音技术的发展必定会伴随着落后技术阵营里传出的反对声)

更有趣的是,Walsh还引用了1949年当LP上市的时候一位评论家发表的78转比33转好的言论,这正好印证了“Every advance in recording has been accompanied by the cries of those whom technology has left behind”。

当然,这几年更加先进的数码技术出现之后所受到越来越多消费者的支持,说明了总体上整个社会是朝着理性、尊重科学的方向发展的,这是一个必然的规律。
最后编辑felixcat 最后编辑于 2007-12-05 02:01:19
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296#

回复:名人谈唱片录音资料汇集(最新:《时代》杂志评“LP vs CD之战”)

技术方面的事实,和由科学事实所决定的人的感受,是不受“时效性”的影响的。因为科学事实是真理,1+1=2,永远不会变;还有假如基因不突变的话,人还是人,生理结构是不变的。所以对于前人关于这一类客观事实的那部分描述,我们经过思考验证之后可以全盘使用。
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297#

回复:名人谈唱片录音资料汇集(最新:《时代》杂志评“LP vs CD之战”)

哦。。这样哦。。。那楼主是否还记得你引用了大量的关于 96/24,192/24与44.1/16相比较的文章呢?而且我记得你还很信服dan lavry关于目前96/24以及更高格式的批判哦?
那个dan lavry那篇文章还在不?他是否算旧阵营呢?我懒得翻帖子啦。楼主这么喜欢翻动西,不如自己翻翻看啊。
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298#

回复:名人谈唱片录音资料汇集(最新:《时代》杂志评“LP vs CD之战”)

请勿吵架;P
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299#

回复:名人谈唱片录音资料汇集(最新:《时代》杂志评“LP vs CD之战”)

借楼主的贴,转一篇文章,希望理性探讨, E文好的请翻译一下。


Vinyl May Be Final Nail in CD's Coffin
By Eliot Van Buskirk  10.29.07 | 12:00 AM
As counterintuitive as it may seem in this age of iPods and digital downloads, vinyl -- the favorite physical format of indie music collectors and audiophiles -- is poised to re-enter the mainstream, or at least become a major tributary.

Talk to almost anyone in the music business' vital indie and DJ scenes and you'll encounter a uniformly optimistic picture of the vinyl market.

"I'm hearing from labels and distributors that vinyl is way up," said Ian Connelly, client relations manager of independent distributor alliance IODA, in an e-mail interview. "And not just the boutique, limited-edition colored vinyl that Jesu/Isis-style fans are hot for right now."

Pressing plants are ramping up production, but where is the demand coming from? Why do so many people still love vinyl, even though its bulky, analog nature is anathema to everything music is supposed to be these days? Records, the vinyl evangelists will tell you, provide more of a connection between fans and artists. And many of today's music fans buy 180-gram vinyl LPs for home listening and MP3s for their portable devices.

"For many of us, and certainly for many of our artists, the vinyl is the true version of the release," said Matador's Patrick Amory. "The size and presence of the artwork, the division into sides, the better sound quality, above all the involvement and work the listener has to put in, all make it the format of choice for people who really care about music."

Because these music fans also listen using portable players and computers, Matador and other labels include coupons in record packaging that can be used to download MP3 versions of the songs. Amory called the coupon program "hugely popular."

Portability is no longer any reason to stick with CDs, and neither is audio quality. Although vinyl purists are ripe for parody, they're right about one thing: Records can sound better than CDs.

Although CDs have a wider dynamic range, mastering houses are often encouraged to compress the audio on CDs to make it as loud as possible: It's the so-called loudness war. Since the audio on vinyl can't be compressed to such extremes, records generally offer a more nuanced sound.

Another reason for vinyl's sonic superiority is that no matter how high a sampling rate is, it can never contain all of the data present in an analog groove, Nyquist's theorem to the contrary.

"The digital world will never get there," said Chris Ashworth, owner of United Record Pressing, the country's largest record pressing plant.

Golden-eared audiophiles have long testified to vinyl's warmer, richer sound. And now demand for vinyl is on the rise. Pressing plants that were already at capacity are staying there, while others are cranking out more records than they did last year in order to keep pace with demand.

Don MacInnis, owner of Record Technology in Camarillo, California, predicts production will be up 25 percent over last year by the end of 2007. And he's not talking about small runs of dance music for DJs, but the whole gamut of music: "new albums, reissues, majors and indies ... jazz, blues, classical, pop and a lot of (classic) rock."

Turntables are hot again as well. Insound, an online music retailer that recently began selling USB turntables alongside vinyl, can't keep them in stock, according to the company's director, Patrick McNamara.

And on Oct. 17, Amazon.com launched a vinyl-only section stocked with a growing collection of titles and several models of record players.

Big labels still aren't buying the vinyl comeback, but it wouldn't be the first time the industry failed to identify a new trend in the music biz.

"Our numbers, at least, don't really point to a resurgence," said Jonathan Lamy, the Recording Industry Association of America's director of communications. Likewise, Nielsen SoundScan, which registered a slight increase in vinyl sales last year, nonetheless showed a 43 percent decrease between 2000 and 2006.

But when it comes to vinyl, these organizations don't really know what they're talking about. The RIAA's numbers are misleading because its member labels are only now beginning to react to the growing demand for vinyl. As for SoundScan, its numbers don't include many of the small indie and dance shops where records are sold. More importantly, neither organization tracks used records sold at stores or on eBay -- arguably the central clearinghouse for vinyl worldwide.

Vinyl's popularity has been underreported before.

"The Consumer Electronics Association said that only 100,000 turntables were sold in 2004. Numark alone sold more than that to pro DJs that year," said Chris Roman, product manager for Numark.

And the vinyl-MP3 tag team might just hasten the long-predicted death of the CD.

San Francisco indie band The Society of Rockets, for example, plans to release its next album strictly on vinyl and as MP3 files.

"Having just gone through the process of mastering our new album for digital and for vinyl, I can say it is completely amazing how different they really sound," said lead singer and guitarist Joshua Babcock in an e-mail interview. "The way the vinyl is so much better and warmer and more interesting to listen to is a wonder."

http://www.wired.com/entertainment/music/commentary/listeningpost/2007/10/listeningpost_1029
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300#

回复: 名人谈唱片录音资料汇集(最新:《时代》杂志评“LP vs CD之战”)

Robert Greene评录音麦克风

Robert Greene是专业音响评论员,在TAS上发表评论长达20余年。同时他也是声学专家,他在其个人网站上(http://www.regonaudio.com/)发表众多涉及麦克风、声学环境的专业文章。

在其中这篇《Audio in Modern Times: the Triumph of Rationality》(摩登时代的音频:理性的凯旋)里,Greene指出了LP早期年代里录音工业的无标准与无序状态。

原文PDF文档:www.regonaudio.com/Audio%20in%20Modern%20Times.pdf

Greene在文章里说,50年代的时候扬声器一般在高频段频响都有滚降,因此造成了频响不平直的麦克风在当时反而会受到欢迎。他在文章里给出了50年代时RCA、水星等公司常用的某型号麦克风的频响:



可见当时麦克风录下来的声音,肯定跟录音现场的相差甚远。Greene接着解释说,由于那个年代的喇叭又恰好在高频有几分贝的滚降,所以这在某种程度上可以听到正确的音效特性;但是假如现在用精准的系统来播放,你将得不到正确的声音。(If you combined this with say an AR3a speaker, with its 5 dB pushed down treble, then you got something like actual tonal character. If you reproduce it accurately now, you definitely do not.)

因此Greene总结说,LP早期年代没有任何真正意义上的标准化措施,除了大家在原则上认为音响系统的每一环节都应该做到频响平直和低失真(The early LP/stereo era ended without any real standardization of anything——except the agreement in principle that each element in the chain out to have flat response and low distortion.)

由此felixcat认为:盲目追求早期头版LP、只认早期立体声录音的行为,至少在音响性上来讲是不理智的。
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